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Author Topic: Ennis and Cassie Scenes  (Read 118882 times)

Offline Melisande

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Ennis and Cassie Scenes
« on: January 08, 2006, 09:41:21 AM »
Here's the place to talk about Cassie and Ennis.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 06:31:19 AM by peteinportland »
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Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2006, 08:36:31 PM »
I loved the Cassie scenes, though not sure why. I find her character interesting in this movie.

Offline leopoldo

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 04:16:09 AM »
She's initially portrayed as a good-time girl, loosening up Ennis a little (look at the daughter's first reactions) but becomes rapidly more involving as a character. She seems to suggest on the one hand, Jack's irreplaceability in Ennis' affections, and on the other, the damage Ennis causes by his inability to express his feelings in appropriate ways. The final scene with Cassie in the diner shows how easy it is to fall in love with him, and how hard it is to deal with that love. After she leaves (and of course we feel for her - she seems genuine, warm, a woman to love) we see Ennis, once again alone, his terrible meal half eaten in front of him. It's a scene with a punch in the solar plexus.

Offline aceygirl

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 07:57:13 AM »
Good points Leopoldo.

However, it's never clear to me just how she could have gotten very far in a relationship with Ennis in the first place. We see her coming on aggressively in the bar, but even then he just goes along. It's clear he's not exactly enthusiastic. So it seems a little improbable to me that a few scenes later she's gotten far enough along with him to be meeting his daughter and talking about marriage. I just don't see what Ennis would have done to make her get to that point.  ???

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 09:26:11 AM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.

Their first meeting is much like Ennis and Jacks. "I'm Cassie Cartwright." "Ennis." Then a pause, and we can hear the line from Jack in our heads. "You're folks stop at Ennis?" With Cassie, after the pause, Ennis adds, "Del Mar." Then Cassie dances with Ennis, although Cassie is doing all the work, just as Jack did most of the dancing around each other on BBM. Cassie makes the first move with an uncomprehending Ennis by putting her feet in his lap. She gets to call him "Dummy" because he is so clueless.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.

Offline David

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 01:26:44 PM »
I loved the Cassie scenes, though not sure why. I find her character interesting in this movie.

Pete, I agree. She's really pretty and one reviewer called her a '3D' character.
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Offline David

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 01:32:27 PM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.

Their first meeting is much like Ennis and Jacks. "I'm Cassie Cartwright." "Ennis." Then a pause, and we can hear the line from Jack in our heads. "You're folks stop at Ennis?" With Cassie, after the pause, Ennis adds, "Del Mar." Then Cassie dances with Ennis, although Cassie is doing all the work, just as Jack did most of the dancing around each other on BBM. Cassie makes the first move with an uncomprehending Ennis by putting her feet in his lap. She gets to call him "Dummy" because he is so clueless.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.

WOW! Great analysis as usual. I hadn't thought about Cassie coming on to Ennis like Jack, but I think you're right.
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Offline David

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 01:35:28 PM »
She's initially portrayed as a good-time girl, loosening up Ennis a little (look at the daughter's first reactions) but becomes rapidly more involving as a character. She seems to suggest on the one hand, Jack's irreplaceability in Ennis' affections, and on the other, the damage Ennis causes by his inability to express his feelings in appropriate ways. The final scene with Cassie in the diner shows how easy it is to fall in love with him, and how hard it is to deal with that love. After she leaves (and of course we feel for her - she seems genuine, warm, a woman to love) we see Ennis, once again alone, his terrible meal half eaten in front of him. It's a scene with a punch in the solar plexus.

A point well made: He was ALONE in that diner, pushing around some half-eaten apple pie, and dying inside. The message was that he was emotionally unavailable to anyone other that Jack.
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Offline aceygirl

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 01:58:55 PM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.


In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.

Excellent points Pete. I wasn't implying that time hadn't passed between those scenes (well, duh! LOL) but I just couldn't see how no matter how much time had passed, how Ennis could have gotten to the point of marriage-talk with Cassie (albeit she is the one doing all the marriage-talk). But the points about validating his manhood and such do make sense, especially after the Thanksgiving scene.

It's amazing what repression can lead a person to do (or let happen). This is a good reminder of that. The long-forgotten memory of a boyfriend whom I ended up realizing I'd led on because I was lonely, not because I was in love, and stayed with a while through sheer guilt now comes up. Geez--I guess many of us have been Ennis in our lives! And Jack, too--the scene where he rushes hundreds of miles to see Ennis, believing Ennis is ready to commit--oh man, has anyone  not gone through that kinda heartbreak and letdown?
 :-\

I'm glad they enhanced the role of Cassie in the movie, since it was not in the book. You're also right on about the freedom Ennis has to "deal" with the Cassie relationship, as opposed to with Jack...maybe Cassie's sauciness and aggressiveness reminded him of Jack, making it all the harder.

Offline canmark

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2006, 08:55:16 PM »
One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

Excellent point.

What I was thinking on my last viewing of BBM was how the Ennis-Cassie relationship parallels the Jack-Randall relationship the way the two Thanksgiving dinners reflected each other. And what's interesting about both Ennis and Jack's relationships is that they are both understandable and objectionable to us (the audience) and to Jack and Ennis.

What I mean is, Ennis is lonely and alone. Cassie pursues him like Lureen pursed Jack. And Ennis may have wanted to hide his homosexuality, which he feared was becoming exposed (Alma clearly knew, and he mentions to Jack about people 'looking at you funny... like they KNOW'). So his actions are somewhat understandable. But they are objectionable because Cassie will clearly end up being hurt. We (the audience) know this; Alma Jr. knows this too, instinctively. And it seems foolish for Ennis to try to find love and happiness with Cassie when it's staring at him right in the face--Jack!

Jack's affair with Randal is similarly understandable. Ennis won't live with him and he has burning sexual needs with no outlet. Randall is a willing--even eager--participant in flirtation. But of course it's objectionable because he's 'cheating' on Ennis. (I wonder: does anyone think Jack would have told Randall about Ennis, or kept him secret? I can't decide on that right now.)

I don't think Ennis realizes the folly of his relationship with Cassie until after Jack dies. He realizes that Cassie, like Alma, will never mean anything to him like Jack. He can't explain it, but he has to hurt her. It's sad, but true, to hear her say 'I don't understand you Ennis del Mar.' Only Jack really understood Ennis. But I think in the end he knows that he'll never go down that path again. Although he may not find another man, he won't ever take up with a woman.
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Offline jack

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2006, 06:09:28 PM »
this one time i will have to be the lone ranger.  someone made a neat point about the parallel, and we knnow ang likes his parallel structure, practically palindromic, but the interlude added nothing to the movie for me.  cassie may have given junior someone to react to, and there is nothing wrong with cardellini as an actress, but it was a big yawn to me.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2006, 06:23:00 PM »
I think the scenes with Cassie added several important things to the movie.  One, this is the first inkling we get that Alma Jr. "knows" about her father.  When Cassie asks Jr. how she she feels about their relationship, Jr. almost tries to warn her by saying "maybe daddy's not the marryin kind."  And when Cassie tels Ennis that she does not get him he replies "I'm sorry...".  It was as if he was apologysing to the whole world for being who he was.  And lastly, it was important in the story to show that in spite of everything Ennis tried to be, he was physically, mentally and subconsciously committed to Jack.

Offline bbbmedia

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2006, 01:54:44 PM »
I'm a newbie here, so please don't all gang up on me, but I really feel the Cassie subplot was one place where the screenplay weakened the original short story.

I can not imagine why McMurty & Ossana added Cassie to the Ennis-Alma mix

Perhaps, because I know and love the story so much, I found Cassie intrusive, and since I knew how the story ended, I knew Ennis would dump her and go on his solitary way after Alma divorces him.

Some critics and viewers complain that the movie is longish and slow paced after The Summer of Love. For me, the added Cassie scenes are responsible for those complaints. If the Cassie subplot had been left on the cutting room floor, the movie would lose nothing in telling Ennis' story, and pick up the tempo of the 1963-1983 sequences.

(I am a solitary "bachelor." I know the joys and sorrows of living by myself. I identify with Ennis and I would never let a Cassie (or a Cassio) in my life)

     
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2006, 07:12:56 PM »
this one time i will have to be the lone ranger.  someone made a neat point about the parallel, and we knnow ang likes his parallel structure, practically palindromic, but the interlude added nothing to the movie for me.  cassie may have given junior someone to react to, and there is nothing wrong with cardellini as an actress, but it was a big yawn to me.

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Offline lauren

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2006, 08:08:17 PM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.

Their first meeting is much like Ennis and Jacks. "I'm Cassie Cartwright." "Ennis." Then a pause, and we can hear the line from Jack in our heads. "You're folks stop at Ennis?" With Cassie, after the pause, Ennis adds, "Del Mar." Then Cassie dances with Ennis, although Cassie is doing all the work, just as Jack did most of the dancing around each other on BBM. Cassie makes the first move with an uncomprehending Ennis by putting her feet in his lap. She gets to call him "Dummy" because he is so clueless.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.

I don't see the Cassie/Jack parallel at all -- Jack doesn't pursue Ennis in the same way Cassie does whatsoever. Cassie's very forward, more like a "predator" to site the infamous word. She purses him when he's clearly not interested. Jack's not like this at all. He flirts with Ennis on BBM in an understated way. Jack doesn't do the equivalent of sticking his feet on his lap. It has a completely different feel to it.  The only person who is good for Ennis is Jack. Cassie wouldn't be good for him because a woman will never do it for him. It would be a huge mistake, like Alma. And in that finals scene with Cassie, he knows that.