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Author Topic: Gay bashing  (Read 158671 times)

Offline mountain boy

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Gay bashing
« on: April 23, 2006, 01:55:13 PM »
The number of gay bashings is SMALL?

Here are the (albeit limited, due to lack of mandatory reporting) for all states for 2003:

The most recent report for 2003 was released last November (PDF: 14MB/166 pages). The breakdown of hate crime incidents by category for all states looks like this:

Race 3848 51%
Religion 1344 18%
Sexual Orientation 1239 17%
Ethnicity 1026 14%
Disability 33 <1%
TOTAL 7490   

Keep in mind that each incident may include more than one crime. For example, an attack against two victims constitutes two crimes but may be counted as one incident. A rape and assault against one victim would count as two crimes against one victim, yet is counted as only one incident. There were a total of 8,715 individual hate crimes reported for 2003.


You call 1239 gay bashings in a year SMALL?  If you say so.

1239 gay bashings

290,000,000 Americans

A 0.000004% chance of being gay-bashed.  Next to nil.

That's off by 2 decimal points (because of the percent), even if this was the way to do it.

1239/290,000,000 = 0.00043%

But the eligible population is gay people, or better yet people who are known to be gay. If it's gay people, we could start with 6% of the population:

6% of 290,000,000 = 17,400,000 gay people (and we're including gay children and gay babies here)
1239/17,400,000 = 0.0071% of those people get bashed every year

Now if it's adults known to be gay, what do you think? 1 in 5? in that case it's .036%, which means 1 in every 2809 gay people gets bashed every year.

So in a 50-year span from age 20 to age 50, the probability that a gay person will not get bashed is (2808/2809) to the 50th power which is 98.2%.

So the probability of gay person getting bashed between the ages of 20 and 70 is 1.8%

One in 57. And that's just reported hate crimes.

Not so good.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 02:16:17 PM by wdj »

Offline louisev

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 02:14:15 PM »
the most disheartening thing is that we don't even have good statistics of hate crimes based on sexual orientation since admittedly, the statistics I got from that article reflect 12% of the reports and from all accounts, are most likely underreporting due to the additional detective work involved in finding a hate crime link.  And detectives won't necessarily do this additional work since there is no higher sentencing allowance for hate crimes against gays.  So those numbers are likely QUITE LOW.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2006, 03:41:20 PM »
So in a 50-year span from age 20 to age 50, the probability that a gay person will not get bashed is (2808/2809) to the 50th power which is 98.2%.

So the probability of gay person getting bashed between the ages of 20 and 70 is 1.8%

One in 57. And that's just reported hate crimes.

Not so good.

I'm sure the number goes up if you were to include the incidents that occur on the grounds of high schools.

Much of the abuse I took was being shoved and assaulted in the halls of high school.  Never said anything to anyone.  One memorable moment was a well known bully cornering me in a deserted auditorium after study hall, and let's just say, placing his hands where they didn't belong.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2006, 04:51:29 PM »
Here's a little personal reflection on this topic.  From the 70s through last year I've had several incidents that border on 'bashing' - I've been fortunate because I've managed to escape serious harm.

1).  A guy in the dorm room jumped on me - his friends surrounding us and said 'you talk so big about being gay, let's see what you can do for me.'  I rolled him off of me and got out of the room.
2).  Two children (under age 15) threw rocks at me and calling me 'faggot'
3).  A group of men in a car throwing a whiskey bottle at me (which smashed in front of me and called me 'devo faggot' (after a devo concert).
4.)  Another group of men threw a bottle at me and calling me 'faggot' as I rounded the corner to go into my apartment building in East Lansing.
5).  A man pulling a knife on me and calling me 'maricon' as I was on the way home from a club (he was drunk and I was able to get away from him). [in San Francisco]
6).  A couple on a motorcycle drove at me and yelled 'die faggot' as I jumped out of their way in the civic center of S.F.
7).  Another bottle thrown at me with 'faggot' yelled out of the car window (near my apartment in San Francisco).
8).  Two kids on bicycles riding up and down the block hitting me as they went by and yelling 'maricon'.

There are other incidents that border on bashing - last year I had a guy tell me on train - 'You're queer, right?  Next time I see you I'm going to beat you up'.  And I had an incident in Michigan where a pair of guys tried to get me into their car - after telling me that they wanted sex (they were pretty clearly not gay) - I'm pretty sure that the very least they want to do was to drive me out into the country (it was the dead of winter) and leave me.

These are the most direct cases - not just the times when men said things to me like 'what are you looking at' to try and intimidate me or get into fights.

I had a friend (also named Michael) who was shot through the heart in the Castro in 1985.  The killers were never found.

Some of these things may seem trivial - but what they mean over a lifetime is an attempt to stifle your identity and silence you.  It's an ongoing violence to the spirit that grinds at you and colors your view of the world.

It's astounding to me that there are people out there who believe that this doesn't happen, or that it isn't real.  What it reminds me of, more than anything, is what I used to read in feminist theory in the 70s about how men denied women's experience (of being discriminated against, of sexual harrassment, etc.) by just telling them that it was all in their minds.

I realize that living in any big city you face danger (I've been attacked two times that were unrelated to my being gay - and the only time I've ever had anyone connect a homeless man hit me in the back of the head with a rock because he didn't like the way I looked at him).  But it also seems true to me that there is something more happening here.  When you cross gender lines and are seen as being at all vulnerable related to sexuality you face being picked out.  It's an gender and sexuality enforcement strategy, whether or not it's conscious or planned.
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2006, 05:17:39 PM »
Stats on gay bashing are nearly worthless. Just from the folks I've talked to, I would say well over ninety percent of all men being assaulted, because someone thought they were gay, are never reported. A lot of this is due to fear of publicity, loosing one's job and the like. The other shoe amounts to the fact a lot of county sheriffs don't bother with some fag getting beat up. Well... unless it's some one from a family with power. And then, the gay part tends to disappear in a plea bargain. As far as sexual abuse goes, I've only known one guy that said he was raped by the highschool football team. He did try to report it, but the school principle said he was just trying to make trouble. The police believed the principle. I believe that was about fifteen years ago in Jeff City. So outside of a handfull of brave souls that are to the point of, I not gonna take it anymore, how would anyone ever achieve anything like valid data to make even a remote guess at the truth?  Until it costs someone whose job it is suppose to be to report crimes against gay folks, all we'll see are the same arguments gay folks are perfectly safe.  Just so long as somoeone doesn't carve the word fag on someone's chest, it ain't a hate crime, because offically it never happened.

Offline Lola

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2006, 05:21:58 PM »
  When you cross gender lines and are seen as being at all vulnerable related to sexuality you face being picked out.  It's an gender and sexuality enforcement strategy, whether or not it's conscious or planned.

I guess that was my next question, how in the world would anyone know you are gay?  I have gay friends and I know if I saw them on the street (and didn't know they were gay)  I would never think they were gay  ???  The only way "anyone" would know was if they saw them together as a couple.
 
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Garry_LH

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2006, 05:32:59 PM »
Well, the guy I know that was attacked by the highschool fooball team.... that was because his best friend was an out proud color wearing lesbian. They boys made a rather dumb assumption. The last I heard of Dan, he was married and had two kids.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2006, 06:13:01 PM »
  When you cross gender lines and are seen as being at all vulnerable related to sexuality you face being picked out.  It's an gender and sexuality enforcement strategy, whether or not it's conscious or planned.

I guess that was my next question, how in the world would anyone know you are gay?  I have gay friends and I know if I saw them on the street (and didn't know they were gay)  I would never think they were gay  ???  The only way "anyone" would know was if they saw them together as a couple.

Well Lola a lot has to do with whether you are 'obvious' (which basically means are you seen as being effeminate).  And basically this has to do with the insecurities of the people who commit this sort of crime.  But they don't always get it right:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/07/28/MN291062.DTL&hw=lesbian+hollister&sn=008&sc=198
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

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Offline mountain boy

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2006, 06:20:58 PM »
Here's a little personal reflection on this topic.  From the 70s through last year I've had several incidents that border on 'bashing' ...
:'(    Mouse ... I'm sorry ... I had to say Mouse because your story reminds me of Michael in Armistead Maupin's stories - Tales of the City? Remember the story where Michael's straight friend Brian is being attacked and Michael says "He's not gay!" ...  :'(

Offline bibra

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 06:22:18 PM »
Bashing will never stop.  Boys and some Men bash just for the sheer pleasure of it.

Being gay is just one of the many excuses used to bash.  Football hooliganism was rife in the UK and bashing was a major part of that. 

I am ashamed to admit this about my countrymen but just recently in Australia some thousands of people descended on the beach to bash a group of Lebanese guys. They had gathered via sms messsages on  mobile phones.  The idiots perceived the Lebanese guys to be a threat to" our Aussie culture".  Rubbish of course. They did not manage to actually bash anybody as the police descended on the beach and arrested the more troublesome offenders.  They were harshly dealt with by the courts and some had to serve time in jail.  The next day a group of Lebanese bashed up a lone guy just walking along a pavement and this was caught on a street camera. Tit for tat and just plain stupid behavior. 

Most Australians were outraged by both incidents.
 
As long as boys have testosterone running through their veins at a pace they cannot handle they will use any excuse to bash someone and the disgusting thing about it is they do it in cowardly packs. 


Offline Lola

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 06:49:37 PM »

Well Lola a lot has to do with whether you are 'obvious' (which basically means are you seen as being effeminate).  And basically this has to do with the insecurities of the people who commit this sort of crime.  But they don't always get it right:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/07/28/MN291062.DTL&hw=lesbian+hollister&sn=008&sc=198


Well that just has to be the most bizzare thing I have ever read.  :'(  And imagine using as their defence, "well we thought he was gay"  What the hell does that say about them?   >:(  That poor man.
 
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Offline dsmom

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 07:38:34 PM »
Of course I dont  remember the name of the town but here in mid Texas there is a small town that was in the news just recently...

There was a young gay man who was charging a powerful, wealthy man with sexually abusing him when he was in school...the police say there is nothing they can do because of the statute of limitations...I just remember that the boy (young man now) at a school board meeting (the man sits on the board) screaming at this man and the police arresting the young man...charging him with something...and they were interviewing a woman in town that said she remembered there was something strange going on and she wished she had spoke up and helped the boy...

It still bothers me...that poor young man...wanting so badly to get justice...no hope of getting it.. but still bravely standing and facing his abuser only to be knocked down and arrested...him not the rapist...
There is the light and the dark and all things that live have the power to choose...

Offline mountain boy

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 07:40:13 PM »
The victim's girlfriend isn't helping much...     :-\

"There was not a homosexual bone in that boy's body," said Oldham's girlfriend of nine years, Saundra Muncy, 38, of Fairfax.

Oldham's friends are angry over what they call a defense ploy, saying Rikard and Appley are falsely claiming that they believed Oldham was gay so that they might avoid a possible death sentence.

"That's what I would have told my client to save (his) life," said Muncy, the victim's girlfriend, a criminal defense paralegal in Sausalito.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 11:50:51 PM »
Here's a little personal reflection on this topic.  From the 70s through last year I've had several incidents that border on 'bashing' ...
:'(    Mouse ... I'm sorry ... I had to say Mouse because your story reminds me of Michael in Armistead Maupin's stories - Tales of the City? Remember the story where Michael's straight friend Brian is being attacked and Michael says "He's not gay!" ...  :'(

Thanks sugar.  Yep, I remember.  There was another case of a guy being killed in the Folsom district a few years ago by bashers who thought he was gay. 
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

Fritz Perls - A Gestalt Prayer

Offline louisev

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Re: Gay bashing
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 02:40:40 AM »
Okay so now that we seem to have a consensus that assaulting gays is one of the most underreported and widespread crimes you all know about, can someone please explain how anyone on this forum of all places, can say it "hardly ever happens"?  Isn't that what Brokeback Mountain is all about?  The thing that "hardly ever happens" but obviously - does?