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Author Topic: Scenes with Ennis and Alma OR Jack and Lureen  (Read 195878 times)

Offline Melisande

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Scenes with Ennis and Alma OR Jack and Lureen
« on: January 08, 2006, 09:46:51 AM »
Discuss Jack and Lureen's scenes, except Thanksgiving, which has its own thread.

Discuss Ennis and Alma's scenes together, except for Thanksgiving and the Reunion, which have their own threads.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 06:40:17 AM by peteinportland »
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Offline M. Alexander

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2006, 02:05:40 PM »
I thought the sledding scene Ennis and Alma have together, shown just after they marry, is sweet and kind of tells the difference between what Ennis had with his wife and what he had with Jack. They are having a good time in the snow, but when they roll off the tobaggan (or was it a sled?), laughing, Ennis wants to rough house, I think, but realizes that Alma is delicate and so he can't. I can't help but think that he thinks of Jack at this time and all the hard play they shared together... :-\

Offline M. Alexander

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2006, 02:30:56 PM »
Sorry, I've got to add one more. The scene in the grocery store. I love the way Ennis grabs up the girls as he comes in - thank God for those little girls! - and how he's stymied a bit when, after asking Monroe where Alma is and is told "Condiments". "The wha?" "Ketchup." (Thank you Larry M. and Diana O. :D ) I love it when Ennis calls Alma "Ma" as he comes to her with the girls. I mean, he's probably 23 years old, tops, and he soundin' like an old married man. (Which I guess he feels he is...) Anyway, the tension and depth of feeling that Heath and Michelle imbue this scene with is just amazing. The visible twitches on Ennis' face when Alma resists his request initially and then her (rather frightened) compliance. This is just great acting. Oh, and how did they get that wonderful moment of Alma Jr. saying "Mamma, I need crayons.." SO SWEET! I think I read in the credits that this little girl has the last name of Proulx. Must be Annie's granddaughter - or maybe her great granddaughter! Anyway, just a wonderful, character establishing scene that pulls us in to the drama between Alma and Ennis. Thank you, Ang Lee! Thank you Heath and Michelle! Thank you everyone!

Offline canmark

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2006, 03:46:39 PM »
and how he's stymied a bit when, after asking Monroe where Alma is and is told "Condiments". "The wha?" "Ketchup." (Thank you Larry M. and Diana O. :D )

Aside: it seems like gay men like to laugh at that line... like they feel that only a straight guy wouldn't know what the "condiments aisle" was (ie. Ennis is straight-acting). Similarly, gay men seem to laugh when Jack fails to catch to catch the keys thrown to him by Lureen's father (ie. Jack is more gay).  ::)
... yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2006, 08:15:20 AM »
Canmark, I totally agree those two little actions are on purpose to show the masculinity of the two. This also ties into when LaShawn is telling Jack that Randall doesn't know anything about fixing cars. I laugh out loud there every time. Duh! Of course, he doesn't. And what a wink and a nod to tell us Randall might be gay (and what a playing into the stereotypes many think this film is trying to shatter).

Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 02:25:53 AM »
"whatcha waitin' for cowboy? a matin' call?"

lureen was awesome... i loved how she's fending off other cowboys, who are asking her if she wants to dance (presumably), you can read her lips she says, "no thank you," a couple times.

smart girl, jack was a looker! i thought the whole thing about their relationship was bittersweet. she knew what she wanted, she got it, and then she slowly lost was was never really hers as she faded from his interest... and finally, she lost it all. poor girl. and to have to hear those assholes calling jack names in the office... she just swallowed and carried on.

i felt for the girl. it's too bad she fell for jack, or jack allowed her to fall in love with him. then again, she could have married somebody even more atrocious! somebody like her dad, who thought boys needed to watch football to be a man.

i never saw anne hathaway in princess diaries, this was my first exposure to the actress. very impressed with her abilities, nicotine stained teeth and all.  :D  from princess to booby barin' cowgirl, i felt she was the perfect match for jake g. in this movie. good casting call.

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Offline David

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 01:25:14 PM »
"whatcha waitin' for cowboy? a matin' call?"

lureen was awesome... i loved how she's fending off other cowboys, who are asking her if she wants to dance (presumably), you can read her lips she says, "no thank you," a couple times.

smart girl, jack was a looker! i thought the whole thing about their relationship was bittersweet. she knew what she wanted, she got it, and then she slowly lost was was never really hers as she faded from his interest... and finally, she lost it all. poor girl. and to have to hear those assholes calling jack names in the office... she just swallowed and carried on.

i felt for the girl. it's too bad she fell for jack, or jack allowed her to fall in love with him. then again, she could have married somebody even more atrocious! somebody like her dad, who thought boys needed to watch football to be a man.

i never saw anne hathaway in princess diaries, this was my first exposure to the actress. very impressed with her abilities, nicotine stained teeth and all. :D from princess to booby barin' cowgirl, i felt she was the perfect match for jake g. in this movie. good casting call.

Jake G. called her a "great partner" in the Logo Brokeback Mountain special.
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2006, 12:24:48 AM »
There is some discussion on other threads about an interview with Anne where she says she is not used to being the "predator" which she is with Jack. I find it interesting that Lureen has to pursue Jack while Jack so clearly pursued Ennis.

We really don't see any emotional scenes with Lureen and Jack like we do with Ennis and Alma. In fact, IMO, the only real time we get to see Anne really stretch as an actress is in the phone call scene with Ennis (not that she is not good in any scenes, she just does not have the very heavy emoting type scenes that Michelle has). Hers and Jack's marriage is shown in a very different light than is Ennis and Alma's.

Offline aceygirl

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2006, 07:52:58 AM »

Jack's affair with Randal is similarly understandable. Ennis won't live with him and he has burning sexual needs with no outlet. Randall is a willing--even eager--participant in flirtation. But of course it's objectionable because he's 'cheating' on Ennis. (I wonder: does anyone think Jack would have told Randall about Ennis, or kept him secret? I can't decide on that right now.)


I've wondered this too. It's pure speculation of course. Some think Jack's plans to have Randall (or whomever it was) move up to Lightning Flat with him in lieu of Ennis means that he was preparing to finally end it with Ennis. I tend to want to believe that had Jack survived, no matter what  happened with Randall, he would keep going on those fishing trips with Ennis. No matter what he thought he would've done, when he saw Ennis crumple like that on their last trip together, I don't see how he could've abandoned Ennis.



Offline bookgirl

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2006, 09:09:30 PM »
Quote
(I wonder: does anyone think Jack would have told Randall about Ennis, or kept him secret? I can't decide on that right now.)
 
Quote


I hope that Jack would keep Ennis to himself. What they had was so intimate and powerful that I can't imagine he would violate his bond with Ennis by sharing the details with some one else. Even if it was someone he was considering starting a new relationship with.

Offline scot5636

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2006, 12:52:06 PM »
Lurene knows Jack likes men, right?  There's that very pointed, almost cutting, conversation in the dance hall/countryclub where Lurene (who appears about as jaded and cynical as it's possible to imagine) asks Jack "Why is it that men never want to dance with their wives?"  It's almost like she's sensed that there's a little spark between Jack and Randall, and she's saying to herself "Oh God, not this again."  Then Jack kinda slams it back at her by asking Randall's wife to dance.  I got a sense that this little drama had played itself out many times between them.

So, is this an indication that Lurene knows, or just that their marriage is at a point where they can do it "over the phone?"

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2006, 09:07:27 AM »
I agree with others on here that Alma Jr knew about her Dad. Remember she was in the car and a witness to the emotional misunderstanding about the divorce postcard Ennis had sent. Watching their faces, eyes, and especially Jack's devastation she would have at least wondered "whoa, what's going on here?".

Offline IAdude71

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2006, 11:05:40 PM »
Since I don't yet have the screenplay of the movie (it's on it's way!) I need some help with something.

In the scene with Jack, Lureen, and the other couple, Lureen says to Jack "Why is it that men don't want to dance with their wives?" 

What does Jack say back to her?  In the 3 times I have watched the movie I cannot tell what he says, but the audience in the theatre seems to chuckle at whatever it is that he says.

Can someone help???   ??? ??? ???
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Offline David

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2006, 02:44:01 PM »
Since I don't yet have the screenplay of the movie (it's on it's way!) I need some help with something.

In the scene with Jack, Lureen, and the other couple, Lureen says to Jack "Why is it that men don't want to dance with their wives?"

What does Jack say back to her? In the 3 times I have watched the movie I cannot tell what he says, but the audience in the theatre seems to chuckle at whatever it is that he says.

Can someone help??? ??? ??? ???

I think he says, "I don't never give 'at no mind."
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline Scott88

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Re: Scene: Ennis and Alma & Jack and Lureen
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2006, 02:50:11 PM »
I think Lureen may have had a sense that Jack liked other men, but she probably remained in denial about it until Jack's death.  And it's pretty clear, IMO, that Lureen doesn't make the full connection until she's on the phone with Ennis.

What I think is so spectacular about the scene is that we're seeing a watershed moment for Lureen.  All these years of inattention from Jack, of an icy marriage...it can all be explained by the fact that Jack had already fallen in love with another person (Ennis) well before she had ever met him.

Amazing how much can be conveyed in a single scene.